Show your Deutsches Jungvolk DJ sigrune sleeve patches

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shane said:
heres my new black/gold or yellow? sig rune patch
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Very well done Shane. That's not an easy one to find. I'd be happy to have it in my collection.

Ewan, your collection is coming along nicely. You should be able to find the others you need in time. I used want ads on the various forums with some success to find the Oberbann 6.
 
Ewan stirling said:
hi guys does anyone know why only the oberbann 1 sigrune patches have the stiched up sides :confused1:

cheers ewan
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I can't locate my reference at the moment Ewan but the patch with the stitched sides was worn that way (stitched onto the shirt as a full square) for a time. Let me have a dig through my stuff and I'll see if I can find the reference. It wasn't the patch for Oberbann 1 at that time though as the Oberbann system had been abolished by then.

Edit: The 'Organisationsbuch der NSDAP' for 1936, 37 and 38 show that the patch was worn this way by all DJ from DJ boy up to and including Stammführer (1936 and 37) and Oberjungstammführer (1938). Ranks above that had special rune patches denoting their rank. I do remember reading a source which stated that the square patch was only worn by those with a rank but I can't put my finger on exactly where I read that. Edit: here is a later thread where I mention that source.

Although the 'Organisationsbuch der NSDAP' for 1938 still shows the patch in this configuration I have a further reference from 'Vorschrift über den Jungvolkdienst' dated 1.2.1938 which says 'the rune patch is to be sewn on to the shirt such that the brown material cannot be seen' so 1938 would seem to be the year when the patch reverted to the more common round configuration.

Here's a photo (dated 1938) I have showing the square patch in wear:

EDIT: explanation for the wearing of square pink rune patches

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Garry said:
I can't locate my reference at the moment Ewan but the patch with the stitched sides was worn that way (stitched onto the shirt as a full square) for a time. Let me have a dig through my stuff and I'll see if I can find the reference. It wasn't the patch for Oberbann 1 at that time though as the Oberbann system had been abolished by then.

Edit: The 'Organisationsbuch der NSDAP' for 1936, 37 and 38 show that the patch was worn this way by all DJ from DJ boy up to and including Stammführer (1936 and 37) and Oberjungstammführer (1938). Ranks above that had special rune patches denoting their rank. I do remember reading a source which stated that the square patch was only worn by those with a rank but I can't put my finger on exactly where I read that.

Although the 'Organisationsbuch der NSDAP' for 1938 still shows the patch in this configuration I have a further reference from 'Vorschrift über den Jungvolkdienst' dated 1.2.1938 which says 'the rune patch is to be sewn on to the shirt such that the brown material cannot be seen' so 1938 would seem to be the year when the patch reverted to the more common round configuration.

Here's a photo (dated 1938) I have showing the square patch in wear:

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hi garry thanks that will explain it thanks thats great info and what makes this forum thee best! :thumbup1:
 
Just got this Oberbann 2 uniform removed in. Neat little worn example. Came in a straps deal. :thumbup1:

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I believe that this may be the highest rank . Enjoy !

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Give me a high five Darin :frusty::h:clap2::thumbup1:.
I FINIALLY learned how to post scans .
 
:bounce::yo: Indeed a high five is deserved Joe. I know you have a great collection that many have not had the pleasure of seeing! Look forward to seeing more of your stuff as do many others here! Keep it coming Joe.
 
Great to see that you've got picture-posting nailed Joe :thumb:

Yes, as you say, this rank insignia was worn by the DJ Obergebietsjungvolkführer which was the highest rank within the Jungvolk.

We can't see the patch reverse as it would appear to be covered by a patch of shirt but there is one immediately obvious difference between your example and those described and shown in the RZM manufacturing regulations and in the 1933 publications 'Die Uniformen der HJ' and 'Die Uniformen der Braunhemden' in that both the outer ring and the Siegrune on the standard examples were stitched using fire-gilded silver thread where yours would appear to be using a gold braid on the outer ring. Also, the stitching on the standard outer ring was set back 3mm from the patch edge where your braid sits directly on the edge.

Your patch has the correct colour and material for this rank and the Siegrune stitching and material also look correct but it seems very odd to me that a stark deviation like gold braid instead of fire-gilded silver thread on that outer ring would be necessary on a patch which, after all, was worn by only a tiny number of personnel and for a relatively short period. Not being able to see the patch reverse is a shame but gaining access would involve unstitching that piece of shirt of course.

I have only ever had one of these patches in hand so my experience in judging them can only really be based on a direct comparison between period descriptions of the standard item (including period manufacturing instructions) and what your patch tells us. Based purely on that direct comparison I have to admit to a few worries mate.
 
I would imagine the patch was as scarce as the rank so most likely made up by a local tailor quick using what was available and who was going to criticize:canada: this guy
 
It's a possibility Paul but they were standardised and do appear in 1933 publications as I mentioned so there is a standard to work from which I think is important for an extremely rare patch (now and of course during the period too purely by virtue of the tiny number of personnel who would have worn it).

With such a limited (and short) production run and considering the high profile of the rank I think a variation like the gold braid outer ring could be either an indication of a patch from early 1933 or indeed a red flag. I can't say for certain either way but Joe's patch differs so much from the standard item that further discussion would be very useful I think in establishing why the differences are apparent. My gut-feeling is that Joe's is a good patch albeit non-standard but I wouldn't feel comfortable in saying that I see enough to say yes, definitely period.
 
Not the most clear illustration when enlarged, but this period published drawing seems to show a gold border on the Sigrune. The illustration seems to contradict the regulation the Garry cited. Interesting.

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No contradiction Darin. That picture (I've attached a slightly clearer version below) is showing the correct configuration which is repeated in the references I quoted above. The outer ring on the standard item is 3mm wide (and flat) and 3mm from the patch edge as shown on my graphic below and as detailed in the RZM manufacturing instructions. Joe's patch however has gold braid and there's no 3mm space between that braid and the patch edge.

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